Ulanyjy çekişme:Hanberke
invitation[düzet]
As an Administrator, you are allowed into #wikimedia-admin, the cross-wiki coordination channel for Wikimedia administrators. Any member of the channel can invite you in temporarily, but you need an invite exemption from a channel operator to get in whenever you want. Please come to #wikimedia and ask for an invite.
Any admin from any project is welcome and it is a good place for cross-wiki coordination of vandal and spam fighting. It is also useful for new admins to contact more experienced admins in real-time to get help with the more complicated admin tasks such as history merges/splits and importing via Special:Import.
- Please remember to translate the interface at betawiki: only and to upload images preferably at commons:
Please note the status expires: 25-06-2009, please come back a few days before the status expires to prolong it or hold a local voting if the community grows.
Thank you
Best regards, --gush (:> )=| 12:15, 25 mart 2009 (UTC)
Proposal for closing[düzet]
Hi. Until the proposal for closing this project in Meta is finished, a link informing about it should be kept on Baş Sahypa so I have restored it. Hopefully it will be possible to remove it soon (if somebody in Meta closes that proposal first, of course). Regards. --86.168.74.255 14:27, 25 mart 2009 (UTC)
Diller[düzet]
Hi again. I have done some changes trying to adapt some things to the way you did but it may be a good idea to have a look at the existing categories before we both start with it because we could end up messing things up unnecesarily. To start, you could have a look at Category:Diller for the categories of languages. The current Turkmen and English words in tk.wiktionary could be either added there or moved to another suitable category along with the words in other languages. Do you think the current categories of languages should be renamed to "LANGUAGE sözler" or is it better to keep them the way they are right now? Regards. --86.168.74.255 15:22, 25 mart 2009 (UTC)
Info[düzet]
Hi. Thanks for your message. I am not especially interested in being part of Wikimedia at the moment and logging in takes time that I often can use better when on-line. I am interested in language development though and I would like to see this place (and many other places) improve :). By changes like this, the lemma is suppressed. This is not very important but the lemma may be slightly different from the page name sometimes. As well, there are grammatical information, in this case the grammatical gender of the German word, that is useful info in a Wiktionary. What are the Turkmen words/abbreviations for grammatical "masculine, femenine, neuter and common"? Time and means are aoften a problem for me bit I'll try to have a thorough look at your changes before I edit again in order to avoid extra work for both of us. You're doing a good job. :) Regards. --86.146.166.191 14:10, 26 mart 2009 (UTC)
Main Page[düzet]
The usual link [[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]] in the main page is just partially informative, it does not show the contents. I think it would be a good idea to make it double (one linking to Special:Allpages) as it used to be previously (see here, in the paragraph below "Wikipediýa sözlügine Hoş geldiňiz!"). Why protecting the main page? It has not been vandalised for a long while. If you are weary of IPs then semi-protection should be enough. Protection should only be used when vandalising or edit wars are recursive, that is why most of big projects have their main pages semi-protected or (a less desirable option in a wiki) fully protected. Regards --86.151.106.127 14:14, 27 mart 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. :) --86.163.126.141 16:03, 30 mart 2009 (UTC)
:( I am afraid I cannot be of much help with such complex templates both because I do not have much time to analyse them and because I only know a few basic things of HTML. Probably the best option is asking in meta:Metapub or in en.wikipedia itself. There must be people in those places who could and be happy to help you. Anyway I'll try to have a deeper look at the problem next time I get on the internet. If I manage to get any clues, I'll let you know as soon as possible. Regards. --86.163.126.141 16:03, 30 mart 2009 (UTC)
Deleted relevant information[düzet]
Hi, Hanberke. I have two questions:
- Why have the translations been removed systematically from pages like this?
- And why have all the Cyrillic-spelt words and links of Turkmen words previously kept in this Wiktionary been deleted and removed as well? Cyrillic is not the official ortography of Turkmen anymore but, being this a dictionary, that information is relevant lexicographical information even though it may be not a priority now. Outdated or old spellings are proper information in a wiki dictionary because they are informative. I do not think all Turkmen texts in Cyrillic have vanished, have they? And if they had, that would be even a more compelling reason to keep those lemmata in a place like this. A template in the Cyrillic-spelt lemmata pages stating the obsolete/less-preferable nature of the spelling along with a link to the modern spelling should be enough to deal with them.
Regards. --82.198.250.12 09:59, 2 maý 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, first of all I decided to reply only logged in users... why are you hiding yourself? I respect that. but in order not to beat the bush, i want to discuss issues with someone logged in. Anyway. for your first question, translations were provided insufficiently and unsystematically, i will of course return to translations' issue after i at least have 1000 good articles in this wiktionary. And my main refernce wikt. will be english one since it is the most reliable in many respects such as content and design. second, i deleted a handful of (not an army of) cyrillic written words. they were done so amateurously - no explanation - no relevant information. and cyrillic written words are not priority. those who will create such articles are welcome but i think this will be done in stage-wise process. Anyway, please don't mind that next time i will not reply anonymous users!!! --Hanberke 09:34, 3 maý 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, Hanberke. I'm not hiding, I am just using wikis anonymously. My reasons for doing so are many (a few of them also complex, some others personal) and I hope you will excuse me if I do not elaborate because I do not have the time or the will to do so. Of course you are free to reply whatever and whoever you like under whatever reasons but you needn’t state all your reasons aloud because, being an administrator, it is not very fortunate to say that “you decided to reply only logged in users because, in order not to beat the bush, you want to discuss issues with someone logged in”; it sounds like coercion or a way to have one’s way by avoiding trouble. The main criteria to give or not to give a reply in a place like this should be measured by the nature of the questions themselves or by the availability of the answers, certainly not by the fact of the messages being issued by a nick or by an IP. We are discussing issues, not internet avatars. Once said that, I have to admit that answering IPs may be a tricky business under certain circumstances and, consequently, I apologise for any inconvenience my behaviour may cause to you. Anyway, there is no need "to beat about the bush" replying IPs. In general it is a good idea to do it in the same page where they wrote their questions, that is why I have left your own answer here before mine. I will check this page next time I visit tk.wiktionary so please do reply here if you will.
- Translations were provided insufficiently and unsystematically? No info is insufficient in a wiki as long as it is valid (i.e. neither incorrect in the context of the page nor misleading; those translations were not either) and I wonder what do you mean by “unsystematically”. Articles like this (only an example of many kept here) are very tiny: there is no pronunciation, no etymology, no Cyrillic or Arabic scripts, no examples, no meanings of the lemma in other languages, no translations, no many things…. Is not that insufficient under your reasoning? Should it be deleted? Tiny articles only mean one thing: that anybody can enlarge and enhance them. That is actually one of the beauties (and basic characteristics) of wikis; wiki articles grow and evolve with the contributions of different people in different times. People who want to see “perfect articles” at once should not expect miracles of wikis. At any extent, they should not impose their point of view by force because that would mean an unfair and arbitrary exclusion of, potentially, millions of users who have as much right to contribute here with their 5 cents as you and me as long as their contributions are valid.
- Those translations you deleted were correct. They were taken and contrasted from several different sources both in printed books and the internet. Due to the nature of the words involved (numbers, common words with very definite meanings), the translations in languages other than English are very likely to be accurate in all the cases. You can easily check this is so but if you do not want to (it is your right), you, as the only local administrator here, should then leave them alone. You can give format to the info and/or flag it but please do not delete it if you are not sure about it. When in doubt, the best thing an administrator (any Wikimedian, actually) can do is flag or categorise the dubious info as such or as "to be checked"; a little template would do for those cases, I can create one in English if you are happy to rename it and translate it into Turkmen.
- > i will of course return to translations' issue after i at least have 1000 good articles in this wiktionary. And my main refernce wikt. will be english one since it is the most reliable in many respects such as content and design
- Then no translations until you reach the target you have established? And do you mean every translation added by others that you cannot verify will be suppressed? That is a odd set of rules I had never come across before in any of the baby Wiktionaries I have known so far and it sounds as if you consider yourself the only user here.
- You deleted exactly 40 pages of Turkmen lemmata in Cyrillic script. You deleted one in Latin script as well: ýetmyş. Maybe it was wrongly spelt? If that was the case, it should have been transferred to the correct lemma instead. I do not mind if 41 pages are a handful, a bunch, a sheaf, a flock or an army but I certainly do know that purposely deleting rightful information in a wiki is not very wise policy even if it happens in only one page. If any of those articles is created again in the future in a way you (or, hopefully, a larger community) find acceptable (they may even be created again by somebody as redirects to the Latin script lemmata; something which makes sense in a Wikipedia but is not so wise in a Wiktionary), will you then be there to restore the hidden edits or should we hope that other sysops will do? Purposely failing to do that would be a lack of due respect to the users who rightfully contributed to the article and keeping rightful history info out of the reach of any user except sysops is not a very wiki-oriented idea either. What is the point of keeping articles unnecessarily hidden (or history-mangled in case somebody re-creates them)?
- > they were done so amateurously - no explanation - no relevant information. and cyrillic written words are not priority
- The average Wikimedian is an amateur. That is not a bad feature at all. Actually it is one of the main strengths of Wikimedia. No explanation/relevant information? The lemmata you deleted kept the pattern of the following example:
=={{-tk-}}==
==={{-num-}}===
'''[[dört]]''' / '''дөрт'''
:[1] [[san]] 4
=={{-trans-}}==
{{(}}
*{{en}}: {{ter|en|four}}
{{-}}
*{{es}}: {{ter|es|cuatro}}
{{)}}
- What better explanation/relevant information for non-priority (but valid) lemmata than the word in Latin script it represents? Anyway, adding in Turkmen the words “Cyrillic spelling of (the word)...” to each of those articles would have taken roughly the same time than deleting the pages but deletion took over instead; the less cautious option. I guess the reason in that moment it was done because they were regarded as “wrong” as it is stated in the three first pages deleted:
- As I said before, those are not incorrect lemmata. Not in a Wiktionary. The fact they are not a priority it is not excuse to interfere in their creation by deleting them in any wiki I know. And what is wrong with scarce contents? Scarcity in a Wiktionary is a very interestingly relative concept and, besides, in the last 5 or 6 years, I have seen many nice, great wiki articles which stayed as weak, flimsy stubs for months or years. A Wikipedian once said, "Deleting stubs is like killing babies". Fortunately it is not as grave as that :) but I think any can grasp what he meant by the simile. Deleted wiki editions can be salvaged... true... the problem is, will all the ones that deserve undeletion will be undeleted? The more time passes, the more unlikely they are to be recovered. I honestly do not see the point of putting fair edits/articles in the same massive graveyard as some vandalisms, spam, tests, unnecessary redirects and mistakes.
- Finally I have to say that doing things like spiriting those translations away and deleting those articles in Cyrillic does not make this wiki a very friendly or helpful wiki to work for many potential users. The fact that somebody does not speak the language of a specific wiki does not mean that they cannot make relevant contributions in it but your approach on these topics fences off a substantial bunch of the things a sensible non-Turkmen speaking user can do here currently. Hanberke, you are likely to be the only administrator in this wiki for a long time. If you are going to be the only executive sieve here, then you’d better be cautious with what you make disappear or hide. Otherwise you will be creating unnecessary and inconvenient work (potentially a lot) for the future (either for yourself or for others) and adding hidden rightful information to the servers, some of it possibly hidden forever (unless a genius Wikimedian in the future creates a gravedigger IA bot able to locate all licit deleted edits/articles). Regards. --82.198.250.12 10:39, 6 maý 2009 (UTC)
OK then[düzet]
I admit that I have been stunned reading all you have written!!! I will certainly consider them all a.s.a.p. (reverting deletions etc.). You are right.Best regards --Hanberke 11:04, 6 maý 2009 (UTC)
- One more thing is that i am very pleased for your comments. wiki is a culture demands time for adaptation. I will write here in case i have questions (no bushes etc...). Looking for ward for your further assistance. --Hanberke 11:42, 6 maý 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks Hanberke. You have also stunned me with your quick response! I only hope you do not totally agree with me (what a scary thought! :S ... :P ). Anyway, spotting our own mistakes and correcting them is something that honours us; it makes us better people and improves our human environment. I am happy to say that tk.wikt is a lucky place because it has you as administrator. :) I have no time now but I will try to have a "to be checked" template ready next time if you think it is a good idea. --82.198.250.12 11:53, 6 maý 2009 (UTC)
- Thnaks for your good comment. Of course, that will be good. You can contribute necessary templates and like. I will gladly localize them! Thanks in advance!!! --Hanberke 11:57, 6 maý 2009 (UTC)
Template(s)[düzet]
Salam, Hanberke. Sorry for the delay. I have no easy access to the internet lately and I am usually very busy when I am on-line.
Here are two possible templates that can be useful here to collect, flag or discuss dubious info. Both of them can be placed after the disputed bit of info, will show as "sup" links and will categorise the article involved as "Wiktionary:Information to be checked". The first template has a link to a general informative page that could say something simple like: "Due to the nature of wikis, some of the information may be dubious and need further checking. Help on the article that lead you to this page is highly appreciated".
<sup>[''[[Wiktionary:Information to be checked|needs checking]]'']<includeonly>{{#if: {{NAMESPACE}} || [[Category:Wiktionary:Information to be checked]] }}</includeonly></sup><noinclude>
[[Category:Wiktonary:Maintenance templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]</noinclude>
<sup>[''[[Talk:{{PAGENAME}}|{{{1}}}]]'']<includeonly>{{#if: {{NAMESPACE}} || [[Category:Wiktionary:Information to be checked]] }}</includeonly></sup><noinclude>
[[Category:Wiktonary:Maintenance templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]</noinclude>
This last template, needs to be filled with a summary of the problem and it links to the talk page of the article, where the person stating the problem can explain it in further detail. It should be used like these examples: {{nameofthetemplate|Info to be checked}}, {{nameofthetemplate|Dubious: see talk page}}, etc.
You may translate and name both templates, only one of them or none, according to your judgement about what could be more useful. In any case I have created them to give you an idea of what can be done.
Another option for whole dubious articles is a headline-like or banner-like template. I have no time to make one now but I'll make one next time.
I will be around most of my time in tk.wikt as an IP but, in order to make you easier to contact me in case you have any questions or need some help from me, I will create an account right now and let you know. Regards. --82.198.250.12 11:41, 9 maý 2009 (UTC)
- 82.198.250.12 = User:Ippi. Regards. --Ippi 11:48, 9 maý 2009 (UTC)
baş sahypa[düzet]
salam Hanberke admin. baş sahypa barada sorajakdym senden, nahili etsen bolar? men fransuzça, türkçe, inlisçe görnüşlerini seretdim, we ing gowysy inlisçe yaly geldi. sen nahili göryan? bizinkem, inlisçe yaly bolsunmy? eger şeyle bolsa, men edip bilerin, edil türkmençe görnüşini. sagbol.--Umyt 12:35, 14 maý 2009 (UTC)
çeşmeler[düzet]
Çeşmeler :
"Template:Çeşmeler" şablony ulnayp; sözlering haysy sözlükden alyandygynam yazsan has gowy bolar pikrimçe; eger kyn düşjek bolsa geregem dal welin.. saglygyn.--Umyt 12:25, 1 iýun 2009 (UTC)
Temporary access expired[düzet]
Hello Hanberke. The temporary access you requested on this wiki has expired (see archived request). Thanks. --Dferg 06:49, 4 sentýabr 2010 (UTC)
Temporary access expired[düzet]
Hello Hanberke. The temporary access you requested on this wiki has expired (see archived request). Thanks. Nick1915 09:18, 23 fewral 2011 (UTC)
Temporary access expired[düzet]
Hello Hanberke. The temporary access you requested on this wiki has expired (see archived request). Thanks. Jusjih 07:04, 23 awgust 2011 (UTC)